Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
719
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Posted - 2014.08.18 19:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:Imo it's fine, after all it's a fire and forget weapon.
I agree, I think Swarms are sufficiently dangerous for a relatively simple to use weapon. AV/V balance is pretty damn good right now. If ADS get a price cut, I'd like to see no lower than 150k, and personally I think 200k is roughly on the money, no pun intended.
Alt of Halla Murr.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
719
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Posted - 2014.08.19 19:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:HAV / ADS - High Reward / Low Risk
Schwarms - Low Reward / High Risk
How to Fix
HAV / ADS - Nerf recovery, such that when repelled they remain repelled for longer than a few seconds.
Schwarms - Buff range, such that the simple act of repelling might not doom the operator.
Simply untrue.
ADS: a single loss = ISK negative for 1-2 battles. That alone is high risk, and with the many different ways that you can go down in flames ADS is most definitely not low risk. High reward, yeah because you can utterly dominate if the enemy team fails to provide resistance.
This is pretty much a cases of one side not looking at it from the other's viewpoint. I do run Swarms (CBR7) and I don't kill many ADSs, but I do get a ton of WP from forcing them to back off.
Alt of Halla Murr.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
720
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Posted - 2014.08.20 22:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:1. Farm
2. Get Hit
3. Fly Away
Please, help me think of roles with less risk exposure than this. So far I've come up with:
* MCC AFK
* Redline Sentinel w/Thales
Are there many others? If not, then the ADS role is by definition Lower Risk than other roles.
Risk is more than just risk exposure, its also about what is being exposed. An ADS is the single most expensive piece of gear in the game. If ISK is not a factor, it shouldn't matter how cheap it is; if ISK is a factor, then it should be difficult to destroy. For your list, add in STD Heavies w/ HMG and Shotgun Scouts. Heavies have an enormous pool of HP and an immensely powerful gun; shotgun Scouts have invisibility and an immensely powerful gun.
As far as your list is concerned, that's an incredible simplification: farming is hardly restricted to ADSs, the primary difference is how people respond to their deaths. If one person pulls out a Swarm, the dropship must be wary and quite likely will have a good chance of simply being driven off (if the user has any idea of how to use terrain to their advantage) but equally a good chance of killing the AVer.
Herein lies a big part of the equation: AV gets damage points. You are being rewarded for forcing a vehicle to disengage simply damaging it sufficiently (almost always the second volley will yield WP: if the ADS is farming, then a second volley is most likely going to connect.)
Get hit/fly away: a lot more complicated than most non-Pilots believe. What obstacles (aka, a one hit kill, and if not, then almost certainly a death sentence after you slow/lose a metric shitton of HP...unless you're an Incubus) are nearby? Do you know where the AV hit you from and are you actually disengaging or are you extending the enemy's threat envelope by flying over them? I realise we are talking Swarms here, but a good Forge Gunner will slap a bad pilot out of the sky; that is, those pilots who simply hit AB and hold L1 to shoot straight up.
Then, if I might go back to the first part: 'farming' in an ADS requires a significant investment of time, ISK, SP and personal skill. To learn to fly an ADS is more than just flying in a militia DS then adding shooting. ADSs manoeuvre differently, more reactively and firing without just hovering steady is a skill that takes time and effort to learn.
Honestly, I mean this with the least amount of venom possible, but have you ever tried flying against competent AV players? A good solo AVer will gain a lot of WP from a dropship and a coordinated two/three will hound a Pilot either forcing them into extremely fleeting engagements (aka, not farming) or otherwise bring them down.
Now, let me clarify my stance: I feel that AV/V balance is in a good place for the most part. I do feel that ADSs can escape Swarm volleys very easily in too many circumstances (and my above points are more about how you think the ADS is some easymode tool.)
Personally, I would like to see regular Swarms increase in speed by about 50%. I would also like to see Assault Swarms become a long range suppression tool for use against DSs: longer lock range, a proportional damage reduction and a further speed increase, plus a travel range increase.
Her Nibs wrote:I call them Chicken Derps...afraid to go up against 1 tiny female with a swarm launcher.
I was talking to Pvt Numnutz (another pilot) the other night about why Pilots so quickly retreat. The reason it boils down to is visibility: at 80m, an infantryman is tiny, not much bigger than an inch maybe and this is usually the close engagement range of a dropship; for the Pilot themselves, acquiring an AVer before they launch/engage is unusual, even the Forge glow is only occasionally rendered; the dropship itself takes up a good 20-40% of the screen, reducing visibility, quite often a significant portion directly below the vehicle.
What I am trying to say is that most Pilots are not running because they are dumb and scared to lose their ship at the first sign of trouble, it's because even when prepared for a fight they are often unable to see their enemy. A good pilot will disengage, recharge and reengage from a better angle and specifically looking for the target.
Alt of Halla Murr.
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